An Interview with Rev. David Doong, General Secretary of CCCOWE
Abby Xu
Author's Note: I first met Rev. David Doong, the current General Secretary of CCCOWE (Chinese Coordination Centre of World Evangelism), at the CMC (Chinese Mission Convention) hosted by AFC (Ambassador for Christ) in December 2024. Rev. Doong was one of the main speakers, and I was deeply moved by his sermon, "The Incomparable Gospel". Though he is a young pastor born in the 1980s, he presents God's vast and profound love in a concrete, authentic, and vivid way. This sparked my interest in interviewing him, and I was eager to share his insights with the readers of this journal.
1. Moments Touched by God's Love
Question: Rev. Doong, in your recent sermon, "The Incomparable Gospel," you explored the profound depth of the gospel, particularly highlighting God's love as it penetrates our hearts and transforms our emotions. Your certainty and joy in preaching made it clear to me that this message was not just based on theological knowledge but likely the fruit of your personal experience. Was there a specific moment or event in your faith journey that gave you this unparalleled understanding of God's love?
Doong: Three events significantly shaped my understanding of God's love.
The first significant event occurred when I was studying theology in Los Angeles, around 24 or 25 years old. On the surface, I was a passionate and God-loving young man, but deep down inside, I knew there was a huge gap between my outward appearance and my inner reality. An older brother at church named Scott cared for me deeply. Yet, because of my deep sense of unworthiness, I had always rejected his kindness and help, including his offer to cover some of my tuition. I feared that he would be utterly disappointed if he found out what kind of person I really was. After a year of struggling, I felt I had to be honest with him.
One day at church, I mustered up the courage and said to Scott, "Thank you for caring for my wife and me, but I want you to know the true state of my heart." Then I revealed many shameful aspects of myself that I had kept hidden. I stared at the floor when I finished speaking, afraid to look up at Scott. To my surprise, after a few seconds of silence, Scott said, "David, let's kneel and pray together!" He laid his hand on my arm as we prayed, and tears started to stream down my face. It was the first time I truly felt accepted as a sinner. As a seminarian, in my mind, I believed God accepted sinners, but emotionally, I had never felt I could genuinely be welcomed into His family. Through such a specific act of acceptance from Scott, God gave me a real taste of His complete love.
The second event occurred after I graduated from seminary, when I was around 30. By then I had begun pastoring, and I worked diligently. However, I was not able to make any big decisions because I feared my father would question my judgment. Ever since I received my calling to ministry, my father, a church elder, would always ask me when some church issues came up, "David, if you were a pastor, how would you handle this?" I deeply respected my father, yet at the same time, I was afraid of disappointing him. It was such fear that crippled my decision-making ability. As time went on, the mix of love and fear I felt for my father eventually grew into bitterness: I resented living in his shadow!
During a church service, as I closed my eyes in prayer, a vivid image appeared in my mind: my father stood tall while I crouched beneath his shadow. In pain, I prayed, "God, what should I do? I love my dad, but I can't escape his shadow." Right after my prayer, the scene quickly zoomed out like a movie lens. Then I was stunned to see another image: my father was also living under his father's shadow! The image was so powerful that I could not help but cry. Deep in my heart, I suddenly realized that I thought I was serving God, but I was actually trying to please my father, a sinner like me, saved by grace, and terribly needing acceptance and healing. Amazingly, such realization did not lessen my respect for my father at all; instead, it deepened my empathy and love for him. He was broken, yet striving to give me his fatherly love, even though his journey of learning came at a cost I had to bear. Through this experience, God taught me to love my father more, as well as other church leaders, especially peers I once saw as competitors.
The third event happened when I was 37, pastoring a loving church and teaching part-time at a seminary. CCCOWE invited me to serve as the General Secretary, but I was initially reluctant to accept the offer. There were two main reasons. First, I didn't want to risk my reputation. Former General Secretaries of CCCOWE, regardless of how capable or spiritual they were, were always subject to criticism—no matter how they handled things, someone would always be dissatisfied. I valued my reputation, and the thought of an imperfect sinner like me under the spotlight, scrutinized by all, was terrifying. Second, this position required frequent travel worldwide, and I couldn't bear the thought of leaving my two young sons.
While I was hesitating, God reminded me one day: "You care so much about your relationship with your children and whether your sons love each other, but have you ever cared about my concerns as a Father? When church brothers, sisters, and leaders compete, fight, or even attack one another, how heartbroken is the Heavenly Father?" From then on, this reminder kept resurfacing. Whenever I thought of the Father's heart, I was overwhelmed with emotions and could not stop crying. It was a cry of repentance: "Lord, I am so selfish, thinking only of myself and never considering the pain of the Father when He sees us acting selfishly." It was also a cry of gratitude: I felt that God was inviting me to step out of my self-centered life and follow Him on a path of self-sacrifice, which would lead me into His fatherly heart.
This experience was crucial. Today, no matter what setbacks I face in ministry, when I reflect on the Heavenly Father's heart, worldly disputes, discomforts, criticisms, or misunderstandings seem far less significant.
2. Spiritual Practices of Opening to God
Question: The three experiences you shared seem to reflect three stages of growing in God's love: first, learning self-acceptance; then, accepting others, especially authority figures like your father; and finally, shepherding God's people with the Heavenly Father's heart. What a beautiful journey of life growth! On the one hand, your experience of God's love deepens; on the other hand, your capacity to love expands. But as they say, "dripping water wears through stone"—it is not a one-day feat. In your growth journey, are there any daily spiritual practices that helped you keenly sense God's love at these key moments?
Doong: These three events were more like awakening moments. My life was not instantly transformed into something magical; instead, it was being gradually shaped in God's hands. Healthy life habits—what we often refer to as "spiritual practices" in the church—are indeed vital for life transformation. The most impactful practice for me has been observing the Sabbath, which began when I was 30.
At that time, I was pastoring full-time, pursuing a Ph.D. in theology, and becoming a new father—all occurring in the same year and keeping me constantly busy. One night, I fainted twice; my body just couldn't take it anymore. The doctor found no physical cause and asked me what I did for a living. "I'm a pastor," I replied. "Ah! That's it!" Staring at me, he said, "This is overwork! Burnout!" It shocked me: a non-Christian doctor diagnosed a pastor with "overwork"! What kind of testimony have I given? Pastors are the ones who know best how to receive rest from God, yet I'd become a restless, overworked patient!
I confessed my struggle to a seminary professor: I could hardly let go of any ministry opportunity, fearing I'd miss God's invitation. In response, he told me that over 20 years, he'd declined about hundreds of opportunities, regretting only two. Earnestly, he said, "David, you're overthinking! You're not that important!" At that moment, I woke up and realized that my restless anxiety stemmed from what the Book of Hebrews says: "so we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief" (Hebrews 3:19; ESV). In short, I didn't believe God was in control! In the pulpit, I preached God's sovereignty, but in life, I acted as if God needed me to do more for His work to make progress and for His kingdom to stand firm.
From then on, I began strictly observing a full Sabbath every Monday by setting aside church duties and seminary work. In the mornings, I would walk in the park, meditating on the Bible and talking with God. In the afternoons, I would help my wife with chores at home, such as gardening or weeding in the backyard; then in the evenings, I would dine with my wife and spend time with family. This Sabbath routine lasted ten years and benefited me greatly. Many moments of self-awareness and inner healing, brought about by God, occurred during these rests.
A few years ago, after becoming CCCOWE General Secretary, I entered a new rhythm of sabbath observing. Ministry travel often put me on planes on Mondays, which made it impossible for me to keep the Sabbath as consistently as before. Thankfully, the CCCOWE Standing Committee leaders thoughtfully suggested that I take four weeks of sabbatical leave every year, saying: "David, you must rest! What you are doing is a marathon, not a sprint!" Their care deeply moved me.
Typically, during my annual sabbatical leave, I'd be sick in the first week—probably my body unwinding after a year's strain. In the second or third week, I'd spend four days at a monastery for a silent retreat, engaging in dialogue with God and writing spiritual journals. My mind usually buzzed with tasks on the first day, unable to settle; by the second or third day, I'd slowly enter deep rest with the Lord. After the retreat, I'd maintain a healthy daily routine: an hour of morning devotion by reading Scripture and writing down my dialogue with God, followed by a jog along a nearby river—continuing my conversation with God during exercise. After that, I would read some good books and spend time with family once they woke up.
I believe that every Christian, not just pastors, needs a secret garden to be alone with God. The key is finding what fits you. I once envied those spiritual giants who prayed in closets, but for me, that secret garden is the riverbank while jogging. Running empties my mind, relaxes me, and keeps me attentive to God. I don't always hear God's voice, but several major life decisions came from God's promptings when I was running along the riverbank.
Question: Rev. Doong, I am genuinely glad that you have built healthy habits, and I hope your experience inspires busy pastors who struggle to pause. I also noticed that you wept each time when God's love touched you in those three key events. What advice would you give to those who long to deeply experience God's love but find it difficult, especially to Christian men?
Doong: Brothers, like sisters, can be emotionally touched by God. However, Chinese culture often encourages brothers to suppress their emotions. The saying, "Men don't shed tears lightly", affected me greatly. As the only son of my family, I was taught from childhood that showing emotion is a sign of weakness. Before I was 18 years old, I not only could not cry in worship services but also looked down on those brothers who shed tears and mocked them as too girly. These gender stereotypes were not intentionally ingrained but rather shaped by culture. Yet, after a while, I began to envy my fellow brothers, and secretly I prayed, "God, could You move me to tears in worship? I long to express myself freely before You like them!" About one or two years later, I started weeping often in worship or while reading Scripture.
For brothers or sisters seeking an emotional breakthrough, I would suggest:
First, humbly ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the cultural chains that make us resist emotional expression.
Second, humbly pray and wait for God's grace, acknowledging that emotional openness is the work of the Holy Spirit and takes time.
Third, learn to express emotions. Many brothers feel moved in worship but struggle to find words to describe it. This takes practice—you may start by sharing with your spouse or a close friend, taking it one step at a time.
Fourth, renew your theological understanding of emotions. Chinese churches in general value rationality over emotions. However, God made us with both rational minds and emotional feelings, and human fallenness distorts both reason and emotion. If we say that emotions are unreliable, then so is our reason. Hasn't God redeemed both? Don't we respond to salvation with both mind and heart? Clarifying this theological understanding could reduce our resistance to emotions. As long as we are willing to open to God, the Spirit will renew our emotions in a specific way.
3. Bearing Abundant Fruit in Love
Question: Thank you, Rev. Doong, for your advice and reminder! I'm curious: once you opened up your emotions, how did it enrich your knowledge and experience of God?
Doong: Once we can feel and respond to the subtle process of the Spirit's moving, our spiritual life will be profoundly enriched.
First, emotional openness expanded my interaction with God beyond formal settings—like Sunday worship—to every aspect of life, including when I shower, run, drive, and more. Even when I was arguing with my wife, I'd tell my wife with a sense of humor from God, "Okay, my dear wife, I get it! This is who I am, but maybe God is refining me through you!" Like a two- or three-year-old, I come to God authentically, without polishing myself, simply expressing joy, anger, sorrow, or delight.
Second, emotional openness deepened my understanding of God's Word. In the past, I approached the Scripture with a logical and analytical mindset, seeking fresh insights. Now, I just choose a verse, chew on it, and reflect on it throughout the day. I may not have much feeling about the verse during my morning devotional time, but encounters with people or events throughout the day often spark sudden insights and move me emotionally, inspiring a heartfelt awe of Him.
Third, emotional openness showed me that much of our knowledge of God comes through lived experience. For example, becoming a father and interacting emotionally with my sons helped me understand more about a father's heart. God used this to deepen my sense of His fatherly heart: If I love my sons so much, how much more is the Heavenly Father's love for us? As a man, I once found the concept of "Christ's bride" awkward. Yet as my emotions for my wife grew richer, although I still couldn't fully relate to the role of a bride, I began to understand from a groom's perspective how much God loves His bride, the Church, fully accepting our immaturity and embracing our constant struggles.
Question: Opening up your emotions has really brought you closer to God in many ways. That is indeed aspirational. Then, on your spiritual journey, have there been times when you couldn't feel God's love? How did you navigate those spiritual dark nights or dry seasons?
Doong: Dry seasons are inevitable! There is a certain paradox in those times: in the moment, God seems absent, but when you look back, He was never gone. A great temptation in that moment is when you feel so lonely, crying out to God with no response, it's easy to go down a vicious cycle—seeking substitutes to numb yourself, then condemning yourself as you know they are vain, yet overwhelmed by the loneliness, seeking substitutions again...
Usually, I cope in two ways. First, I would review my past spiritual journals. I may not feel God's presence now, but I can recall what it's like before, as the psalmist says, "I will remember Your wonders of old" (Psalm 77:11, ESV). Second, I would do my best to maintain healthy habits during dark times. This is like continuing to eat when we are sick, although we have no appetite. For me, my healthy habit is keeping my morning devotion, spending time talking with God.
4. Sharing the Fruit of God's Love
Question: Rev. Doong, lastly, how have your experiences of God's love impacted your current ministry at CCCOWE?
Doong: CCCOWE is a movement connecting overseas Chinese churches. It started 50 years ago. As the General Secretary, I interact with Christian leaders worldwide. Through my personal experience, I know leaders are often lonely. We share God's message of love and strive to love others, but many times we don't feel loved. Many do not realize how this loneliness and insecurity affect us in ministry, causing us to lean on "doing" instead of "being", constantly striving to prove through work that we are worthy and lovable.
Recognizing my inner emotions has given me a perspective of love toward my ministry at CCCOWE. I may not be able to accomplish great things, but at least I can do one thing: love every leader God brings before me. Whether they are older, about my age, or younger, I am willing to learn to love my brothers and sisters for who they are.
I believe this ties closely to the Great Commission. The gospel is not advanced just by "what we do" but also by "who we are"—living a life touched and changed by Christ. If the leaders of today's churches, seminaries, mission fields, and workplaces can, as Jesus said, welcome a little one in love, the impact of the gospel through these leaders might far exceed that of big events and programs of evangelism.
Moreover, my ministry at CCCOWE involves delicate interactions with all kinds of people. Practicing emotional awareness helps me learn to process negative feelings before God. Specifically, I usually ask myself five questions whenever negativity arises:
- What happened? Identify the trigger.
- What are my emotions? Name them (e.g., feelings of isolation, contempt, rejection, attack).
- What story am I living in? Explore the narrative behind the emotions.
- How does the gospel challenge this story? Find the key for transformation.
- How should I respond to God? Act on it.
For example, when I first became the General Secretary, inviting prominent speakers made me anxious, as I feared rejection. I started to realize that I was living in a false narrative (survival-of-the-fittest in the jungle of the Christian world). I believed that securing prominent speakers made me significant, while rejection meant being belittled. But the gospel reminded me that the incarnated Jesus has overturned the jungle law of this world through the Cross. I serve in ministry, not by the jungle survival rule, but by imitating my Lord's humble sacrifice.
Working through these five questions typically transforms at least 90% of my negative emotions into renewed passion in following God. However, I am still learning, much like a toddler, taking three steps forward and then one step back.
Postscript
Thanks to Rev. Doong for openly and sincerely sharing his heart and life journey. We believe that his ministry as CCCOWE General Secretary will become increasingly fruitful as every Chinese leader he encounters feels his love and the love of Christ. We are also confident that the readers of this magazine—pastors serving in China, who are currently beyond CCCOWE's care—will be greatly inspired to live healthy lives of being God's beloved sons and daughters, and thus draw more people to Christ.